Today in Seychelles with Wavel Ramkalawan
5 hrs ·
The Big interview with Wavel Ramakalawan, leader of the Seychelles National Party
“If you’re so confident, complete your term”
President James Michel’s recent assertions in a Mauritian newspaper that he’s confident of winning the next elections, did not go down well with the leader of the Seychelles National Party (SNP), Wavel Ramkalawan. In this interview, he explains why James Michel’s statement could backfire.
By DB
Mr Michel has said that he is confident he will win the next elections because the opposition is fragmented and inexistent. Even his worst enemies will have to agree that the opposition hasn’t been outstanding recently…
It all depends what you mean by outstanding. We boycotted the elections in 2011 and the system here allows only for the opposition as represented in the National Assembly to be given any prominence. So, yes, we have not appeared on the SBC and yes, a lot of declarations that we’ve made have not been covered but this doesn’t mean that the SNP is fragmented. We’ve been holding our party conventions annually, we’ve had elections for the executive committee and the office bearers during those three years we’ve been outside of the National Assembly. We’ve sat down for two years on the electoral reform forum to bring forward propositions to amend the law but also to look at the Public Order Act (POA).
We now have a case before the Constitutional Court challenging the POA. And don’t forget that last year, we also appointed 25 district representatives. The SNP is very well organised and last week we started a series of meetings in the districts and we have people going door to door. So it’s all well and good to say that the SNP is fragmented when you don’t know what is happening and when people don’t take the time to find out what is happening. It’s not because one former member of the party is appointed Minister that the party is fragmented. It’s not because one member of the executive committee agrees, in the spirit of national reconciliation, to make a speech at the launch of a book by the President that the party is fragmented.
But do you agree that the perception exists?
Yes, there may be a perception but we’ve got to be very careful. We cannot base ourselves on social media to find out what is happening in the districts. The four or five people using social media to express themselves to say all manner of things do not represent what is happening in the party.
You said on social media that, with his statement about the opposition, Mr Michel was making a mockery of leader of the opposition, David Pierre. But at the SNP, you’ve always maintained that Mr Pierre was not really the opposition anyway.
Which is which?
Yes, we do not consider the PDM as an opposition party because we know how it came about and what Mr Pierre represents. But it is Mr Michel who gives David Pierre prominence. It is Mr Michel who has declared on a number of occasions that now he has a serious opposition, an opposition that makes contributions and what not. The prominence is seen through the monthly meetings between the two and Mr Pierre is given ample airtime to express whatever he wishes after the meetings. So having declared Mr Pierre a big shot, Mr Michel tells the Mauritian press that the opposition is nonexistent. So, this is why I say that he is not insulting the SNP because we are supposed to be non-existent! We’re not in the National Assembly but David Pierre is.
In retrospect, would you say it was a tactical mistake to boycott the 2011 elections?
No. I would do it all over again if I had to. It was important for us to go through the electoral reform. Whatever the outcome – and we’re not happy with everything that has come out of it – it was the right thing to do. What went wrong was not the boycott but the way the Court of Appeal rewrote the Constitution.
Even if they hadn’t done what you say they did, there would still have been a Parliament and you would still not be sitting in it!
Yes, but there would not have been an opposition and this in itself would have been a form of pressure to force government to go through with electoral reform and to hold fresh elections.
But would it not have been possible to do both? Take part in the elections and go for the reform?
No. What you must understand is the way this government functions. When you talk of corruption and everything else, this government will give you a Public Officers Ethics Code and will set up a commission that is toothless. If you complain about the media, they set up a Media Commission…
Thus hitting the right notes in terms of international opinion?
Yes. If you talk about human rights, they’ll have a Human Rights Commission. Let’s not forget what Mr Michel did when we spoke of electoral reform. Straightaway, he amended the Constitution to move from an electoral commissioner to an Electoral Commission. For him, this would have been enough – that’s the reform! And he would have said, “we’ve changed the law and now it’s up to the commission”, like he does on other matters. So it was important for us to boycott and, at the same time, I think during those three years, it has helped us to reflect on a lot of issues and it has also helped the people of Seychelles to understand a little bit more about what democracy is all about. Today, wherever you go, people say “ah, but the National Assembly is a waste of time” because there is no opposition. And they can compare it with when we were in the National Assembly. They know the difference now.
But it can also work two ways – it can be a case of “loin des yeux, loin du coeur”. Would you say that the absence of the SNP from the National Assembly has been detrimental, to the party?
I will say yes. There has been some negative effect in some areas but I’m not scared of that because when I go around door to door, when I speak to people, I find that because of the general state of affairs in the country, be it in terms of social aspects or economic aspects, the people are worse off today.
And you think people will have the courage to say “enough!”? I’m told that people in Seychelles kind of like their comfort zone?
(Smiles…) The people in Seychelles can be unpredictable and this is why at this point in time, it would be a mistake for any politician to make absolute declarations like the ones Mr Michel made.
At the same time, it’s intelligent politics to make a show of confidence!
Of course, a politician is a boxer and has to knock down his opponents in the first seconds of the first round. But it can still backfire especially when one reflects on what he says. James Michel says he will win the elections because of an inexistent opposition, I think this is wrong. He should have said “I will win the elections because I have done so well!” If I’m the only one in the race, of course, I’ll win! So the statement is ignorant and I believe it is a sign of weakness, a sign of somebody who is scared. And it is a sign of somebody who is unsure of himself because he’s not sure if he’s going to win the elections because people approve of him.
What do you make of Mr Michel’s statement to the effect that can call the elections at any time? Do you think the elections will be called this year?
Again, if you’re so sure of yourself, you’ve been elected for a mandate of five years, so if you’re doing so well, complete your term! Why do you have to call early elections? But yes, we are hearing that presidential elections will be this year.
And what do you think?
(Hesitates…) I don’t know, but in a sense, feeling the insecurity and seeing the deterioration in the way things are going, I think he will call the elections this year. He will try to win now so that he can get five years instead of seeing the decay continue and eventually losing the elections.
This “decay” and insecurity that you’re talking about, what do you attribute them to?
Last year’s budget was the worst budget that the people of Seychelles have had. The cost of living is on the rise and the Minister of Finance said that things were going to improve but you go in every shop and you find that the price of bread has increased by SCR2, the price of basic commodities has gone up and salaries have remained where they were. Transport costs have gone up and this why we held the march – not to defend the rich people – but to say that when the price of transport goes up, everything goes up. People find themselves struggling just to make ends meet. The social decay – just look at what happened at the beginning of the year – a 12 year-old stabbed a10 year-old, a sister attacked another sister, a father killed son – generally speaking, there is a moral decay which is growing. Yes, the reports of the NDEA show they have been successful at tracking down drugs but we all know when you make one arrest, there are ten who have gone under the radar. Mr Michel who has got his people - the MNAs, Ministers, Das, etc. – on the ground, knows that when they talk to their own people, they see people are not responding. This reshuffle was also meant to give people the impression that the team is ok.
We haven’t heard the SNP on the reshuffle more than a week after the fact. How do you read what President Michel has tried to do?
He’s trying to present a complete team and this time, he is trying to be more politically correct and show that he has a team that is representative of the population. This is the first thing he has tried to do. Secondly, he’s trying to give the impression that he’s somebody who’s got young people around him. To give the impression that he has the youth with him. The thing that he has failed to do is to bring people who can bring about confidence. I mean, you throw out Pierre Laporte?
Well, Jean Paul Adam is said to be competent!
But he’s not a technician and finance is something you need to understand. Pierre Laporte has worked for the IMF, he understood finance, and he knew the ropes and everything about the portfolio.
So you’re saying James Michel should have kept Pierre Laporte?
Yes, because Pierre Laporte is a technician and, at this point in time, you need one at the head of Finance. But I know that the real reason Mr Laporte was kicked out was because he was trying to fight corruption.
Pierre Laporte was also implementing the IMF reforms which have brought on some of the economic problems you’re complaining about. Do you agree with these reforms or not?
The problem is not the reforms of the IMF; the problem lies with the fact that we have a government which is not ready to go all the way. When you say you’re opening the country to business, for goodness sake, open it up for business. Stop saying Paul will be able to do business but not Mary because she doesn’t support the right colour. There are many instances where government itself is the obstacle to the reforms. If you’re fighting corruption, then everybody should be treated the same way but we have a government that proclaims that we have the rule of law but unfortunately, it doesn’t happy to everyone.
Let’s talk about the opposition. Is it true to say that the opposition in general is fragmented? For instance, is the SNP still in alliance with the SUP?
When the SUP had its convention for the change of name and new constitution, an interim executive committee was elected but it has to go through the process of ratifying it. So we said to them, “once you’ve organized yourselves, then we can talk”. As far as unity in the opposition is concerned, we are in a rather delicate position, We’ve got the SNP which is a well-organised party, we’ve got Christopher Gill with the Seychelles Freedom Party which is basically a one-man show and then we’ve got the SUP, which has an interim leadership. Of course, there’s the PDM which is not in the opposition So now, as far as political parties are concerned, we find ourselves alone while the others are sorting themselves out.
You spoke earlier of Bernard Georges going to the State House to make a speech on the occasion of the launch of President Michel’s book. Would you say that people in the opposition have been tempted by James Michel’s call for National Unity?
The call for national unity/national reconciliation has come from the opposition. Whereas the opposition wants to see national reconciliation because we want to move forward, this is unfortunately not what the ruling party wants. Take for instance last year, it decided to adopt June 29 as National Day. We’ve been calling for this since the return of the multi-party system in 1993. So they do it, which is a wonderful move. But what does Mr Michel do? He removes Zonm Lib from where it was and instead of getting rid of it altogether, he move it 50 metres down the road. So can we say there is sincerity and seriousness? No, there’s neither. There are so many other things that we need to touch on, such as all the names of the roads which are still linked to the coup d’état. If you are serious and you want the country to move forward, there are concrete things that you can do.
Is this because there is no consensus about national unity issue within the party? There appears to be a current that wants to go forward with James Michel and another that wants to go back to what Albert René represented?
This is something that you hear all the time and it is true and I know there are some staunch supporters who view Michel with circumspection. They say René did not sell land to the Arabs, he kept land for Seychellois, they criticize the IMF programme and say that René would never have done that because he would have put his people first, etc.
But you do agree, don’t you that René’s model is unworkable nowadays?
Exactly and this country has to move forward except that the problem is that James Michel is not fully committed to the reforms. If it were different, then the country would have been in a different position.
To what extent do you think the fact that James Mancham’s support of James Michel helps the President?
I don’t think it does. Mr Mancham is not a very important factor in Seychelles’ politics today. He’s the past and when he comes close to the very people who overthrew him, he’s seen as a traitor. If things had been different and positive changes had come about on the political field because of what Mancham was doing, it would have been possibly good.
You said earlier that people say that René would not have given the land to foreigners and that Michel is doing so. But don’t you agree that Seychelles needs those countries’ goodwill whether it’s the Arabs or somebody else? Doesn’t Seychelles need people to inject money in the country?
Of course we do. But instead of giving them all the precious land that will eventually only serve to destroy our patrimony, can’t we do it differently? Do we have to sell land? Can a Seychelleois buy land in United Arab Emirates? What not do it in a way that benefits Seychellois, whatever decision the government is taking?
The SNP’s objection to “selling land to the Arabs” is usually accompanied by a criticism of foreign workers in Seychelles. Yet, wouldn’t you agree that Seychelles is in need of those same foreign workers you’re criticizing?
We don’t have a problem with foreign workers; we have a problem with the system. My problem with the system is that it has failed to produce qualified men and women to take charge of this country and this is why we need foreigners. The SNP does not have problems with individuals but with the system.
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